Context:
E-dating is rampant between young users in corners of the site consisting of small, undetectable networks. Not only is this phenomenon inappropriate and improper use of the site's community features, but it leaves them incredibly vulnerable to predatory online situations. With the size of the current team, it is impossible to moderate nearly as thoroughly as is needed to stop these situations from happening--before any barriers of appropriate behavior have been crossed. Users often build a rapport through consistent communication on eachother's walls, then they link eachother to spaces for communication outside of the site (common examples: Discord, Padlet, or Skype/Zoom.) Once that outside line of communication is set up, there is only so much moderators can do to reduce harm. So I think Audiotool should take a more preventative approach!
Preface:
There are two types of young users who enter the site. Users entering on their own accord, and users entering with a school email for their curriculum. It is harder to deal with the former because it's not out of the ordinary for children to lie about their age when making accounts. Photo ID verification is beyond excessive for a music production site, and no effective alternative comes to mind that wouldn't be similarly intrusive/inconvenient, so for the purpose of being concise we will assume users don't lie about their age. But be aware that it's a very common reality that should be accounted for!
Age Restrictions
During the sign up process, you should be asked for your birth date. If you fall below a certain age threshold (13 is a common example), your account should fall under some restrictions. It's difficult to decide the severity of restrictions that would balance user experience with safety, but I believe the bare minimum should be to remove the ability to share/receive outside links or to use video chat in collabs. Even safer restrictions would be to remove some entire community features such as walls and certain parts of the board. Shifting focus to school email users, those emails are usually integrated with and managed by school districts themselves. If there is a way for Audiotool to detect school emails as such, harsher restrictions should be applied automatically when signing up. Maybe those accounts could be hidden from the rest of the community entirely, and only be visible to other users in that school district. I think Audiotool becoming part of schools' curriculums is amazing but there is zero reason for strangers to be able to see/interact with that (and vice versa.)
TLDR
Audiotool needs to take a more preventative approach to protect young users so that they can still enjoy the site without the risk of issues. Such an approach would ease some of the workload on the moderation team and create a much healthier and safer community environment!
Comments (48)
馃憤馃憤馃憤鈥硷笍
great idea
Very much need this
馃憦
age restriction would be a really good solution to this, i really dont know what bad could happen because of it
Love it
Think the only bit I disagree with it banning the walls in general
I think they should make it so people simply can鈥檛 put links like discord zoom or google meet
And maybe make the age limit 14
Other than that, this is a great idea
1000%. The mods have gotten better at cracking down but there鈥檚 still some isolated pockets
banning walls would be much more useful than just banning links, banning a wall makes it so the person can really not be known, as most of the kids here just flat out say there age in there walls.
basically banning a wall makes it harder to find out if they are a kid or not, and if they are they wont be in much danger since it would be harder to find a way to talk to them (thats if they banned the walls and not the ability to interact with the community in general).
The fact that this wasn't considered the second they green lit schools using this platform is honestly hilarious
they you're taking away how the audiotool community interacts
Should people who are under age really have the ability to communicate with potential predators?
We all know a certain someone who got some flak because of interactions outside this platform.
Who's to say others aren't doing so in secret and pretend to be a child just to get closer to others that are under 18
It's not a savory thought but it doesn't matter if its how the community interacts
It's about protecting those who don't understand online safety and preventing potential issues from occurring later down the line for good
Another reason this would be beneficial the 2021 incident where someone was posting graphic images and providing illegal content via links and their wall
Had audiotool had a system like this prior these types of issues would never occur
Of course it wont stop alt accounts from simply lying about their age but it could potentially make it harder for people to do so again if they restrict how new accounts interact with audiotools social aspects more so how accounts registered with a dob that makes them under 18
true
I suggested walls being inaccessible to restricted accounts because they are essentially a public inbox where more often than not ppl just have random convos. Comments should remain untouched bc they're relevant to the music. But walls are more of a feature for mingling. I don't think it's necessary to be able to chat with kids
I like how you emphasized restricted accounts. I like that better
And I agree with you, now that I think about it.
Lmao I don鈥檛 see you running a site like this with the available recourses
Give them time dude, especially when someone is making this aware just now
And don鈥檛 laugh at it you sound like a redditor
they had literal years to incorporate this they've had these issues since even before i joined in 2019 lmao
actually building off what was said I did my own searching a while ago and found a browser based burner email that had the audiotool news letter pretty much notifications dating back to around 2020 entire conversations etc just sitting out there
not to mention sites like wayback machine are able to save everything you say lol
have you ever told audiotool about them??
iirc i sent an email maybe once? other than that the community slowly saw just how bad it became after a while
yeah
100%
Suggestion for account restrictions: Earn features based on the following.
Acc age 0: Access Studio, save in Studio, access Mix, create albums, like things
Acc age 5 days + accept terms: Comment, downvote things, publish anything, download tracks, contribute to forums, publish visible samples
Acc age 10 days + accept more terms: Obtain anything else that there is to get
Problems? Feel free to challenge me in a debate.
I don't really think that gets to the root of the problem though. It's the age of the people themselves, not the accounts
Then perhaps the account restrictions work for age as well. Imagine an Audiotool Kids where there is a profanity filter and only people 12 and under can access, while main Audiotool they can't. A track from main Audiotool can be applied for Kids viewing but Audiotool Team intervention is required to ensure there is nothing inappropriate (and the track has to be applied again if it is modified, also comments are hidden from the kids and they have their own separate commenting channel).
the issue I'm trying to combat isn't that kids are saying/seeing profanity on here or making inappropriate tracks. my problem is users dating eachother over the site and getting preyed on by older users. when this happens it's usually via their walls
My exact thoughts, and I made my account with my own email cuz I'm homeschooled so yeah.
I totally agree with you with the age restrictions, not an age cutoff like SoundTrap has.
I love music, and the fact that I can make bangers at a young age for free means the world to me.
Mods on AT are actually one of the few gems compared to other sites, but yeah you still speaking truth
The mods are either understaffed. Or they think some of the things ppl say on here are still considered appropriate
Speaking of age limits, does audiotool have to abide by the COPPA law?
If that's the case, minors under 13 shouldn't have an account on this website.
That aside, that's a solid idea to keep e-daters at bay while maintaining the purpose of this site, which is making (and sharing) music.
...no?
currently no, because COPPA is concerned with making sure sites dont collect personal info from minors <13 without parental consent. the only info audiotool requires is an email and i dont think that fits COPPA's criteria. if they took this suggestion tho and asked for your age they would then have to abide by COPPA
Good point, @evilpanda107
e-daters need to be stopped 馃槶
I agree. E-daters derail discussion topics and leak information that's best not known. It's cringe. There are social media platforms made specifically for e-dating, yet people keep using non-dating social media platforms as e-dating social media platforms. There's a time and place for everything. A place where there's likely <13 accounts and accounts that are owned by 13+ but sometimes used by <13 siblings/cousins/friends is not the place to be spewing whatever weird crap that e-daters spew. People do not need to know, nor want to know, the things that e-daters would say. Especially the little children who have access to Audiotool, either through their own account or the account of someone above the recommended minimum age.
dude, i swear, the moderaters don't do shit. honestly. they may do slight things to the studio or whatever but that's it.
Mods don't do anything to the studio; they aren't devs.
Just because a mod doesn't publicly announce that they have contacted someone about their behaviour, or banned an account etc. doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
The irony in this kind of thinking is that I see people complain that mods don't do enough, then I go to a different thread and see people complain about mods doing too much. There's no winning for them.
good point
I js hope they stop their behavior 馃し馃従鈥嶁檪
most of the ppl complaining about mods doing too much are probably the ones/friends of the ones receiving consequences LOL
in reality no matter how big the mod team is, this issue will remain bigger. especially during school season the number of children active here is massive. and most of their accounts are hard to find because they're new, small, etc
+i think i put too much emphasis on e-daters. theyre an obvious problem but it's not the full scope. children and adults existing in the same space online without any separation is a hazard
e daters on audiotool is insane
Yeah the mods do alot tbh. Dealing with the amt of idiots on this site (including myself) has to be a headache.
I think things could be implemented but atp people are so impatient it'd be better for them not to happen so that people learn lessons.
e-daters are a plague EVERYWHERE on the internet. in fact we don't have it as bad as other sites i've been on
@thenumber1 Still, I don't think it justifies the fact that people are using a -music creating/sharing platform- as a dating site. #IMean you're supposed to be artists, not e-daters.
Devil's advocate: at least trap kids are using this site are using audiotool as intended: to create and share music, no matter the quality. Unless they start behaving like e-daters, or even worse, actual predators. Then that's a different story AFAIK. (no disrespect to the trap producers who priotize making beats over e-dating or something).
I would tackle the mod stuff, but that's for another time.
this is still highly relevant
like parental controls