I've noticed a lingering sentiment that something is OFF around here. Looking around peoples' walls I find myself eavesdropping on a lot of discussions about the state of the site that have a thick air of pessimism surrounding them. With the recent near irrelevance of the charts and the growing scarcity of "freshly emerged" audiotool role models (of whom there used to be no shortage), it makes sense to feel like shit's hitting the fan fast. But what bothers me is that I don't see a lot of people discussing any deeper than that gut feeling. 'What' is only half of the equation; you need 'why' for these observations to change anything
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I feel like a wider and wider gap has grown between the artists who've left and the artists who are following in their footsteps. How I see it, the community is cyclical. Artists start on audiotool, develop + mature their sound over a few years, garner a consistent following, and eventually move on to another DAW for more ambitious ventures. A new wave of artists follow, having been inspired by the wave before while offering new perspectives and influences that consistently breathe new life into audiotool's musical canon. Over the past few years I think this system was disrupted. My theory is that so many 'role model' artists left/became less active (all around the same time) that newer artists are too far-removed from them for the torch to have been passed. It's like the torch was dropped too soon and nobody could catch it
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So how does that manifest on the site? It seems like artists are more scattered and isolated now... like the community is in a period of restarting. Maybe there's such a drought lately because we have to wait and watch in real time as newer artists develop into the roles of past audiotool upperclassmen almost completely from scratch. Many don't have the luxury of active inspiration from within the site right now especially if their genres are more niche. If I were a new user and my creative vision didn't have common ground with almost anyone currently active, making my only frame of reference music created in other DAWs (probably professionally), it would be really difficult to improve at the breakneck pace of those who were around during audiotool's heyday. Not to mention too many artists here (both growing and seasoned) don't even produce a lot of their discography in the audiotool studio. There's a key reason that's frowned upon here: how do you learn how to produce on audiotool from someone who's using FL, or Ableton, or Logic? You can't. And the community suffers most when people aren't learning from eachother
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I'd like to wrap this up gently. Many people are catastrophizing and creating a sorta discouraging environment for the whole community, let alone newcomers. I think audiotool's in a rough, transitional patch and pessimism is the last thing it needs. There are loads of people still passionately invested in this place who keep the culture of it alive and well. Some of them even run the site. Believe in them, believe in the artists perfecting their craft in the studio as you read this, and believe in those who will take their place when they've left. Don't overlook how beautiful of a thing audiotool is. Love ya
Comments (45)
i think it could mostly be that most new artists are just interested in more modern genres like hip hop, trap and hyperpop instead of just regular electronic music like the old community used to be focused on. the flame was dropped but the new community didn't want the flame. now they have to make their own one. i'm still very excited for the future of audiotool, despite moving away from audiotool. theres some things that other daws can't offer that audiotool excels at.
I agree with you, and I was actually gonna add smth along those lines. Post kinda just got too long LMAO
I'm super excited too. I envision music on here getting way more diverse than before
This just tickled my brain and opened my eyes to a whole new level.
Wow.
that too! can't wait to hear the next generation of music on audiotool!
i cant believe audiotool is shutting down on November 24th 2023
anyways i feel like a lot of the bickering and rumors are just due to andre michelle moving on from audiotool and pursuing other projects. people think he left due to some sort of lawsuit when really he just grew bored of audiotool and wanted to work on other things.
collab???
the main deterrent is how shallow the community really is.
New producers go unseen and or have little to no way of having confident connections with bigger artists. They usually go unseen for weeks and even months. Typically a smaller group of active users on this site such as hurakan and elow or their associates/friends great them. Other times its mainly consisting of mostly trap or hiphop esc music producers who find them and spam them with their tracks instead of useful criticism. That's also only if you make a track that is fitted into the genres they producer. (rip experimental producers you guys myself included tend to gather dust until some bigger names find us lol)
The other major issue is low or little to no incentive to interact with the community when starting out. Especially if you struggle with social interactions.
Building off this
Trying to join an already pre established friend group on this DAW is honestly one of the most weird experiences. It leaves you feeling clueless and honestly extremely left out on everything.
imagine having to suddenly walk into a room full of people who all know what they're doing and have to ask someone for help just for someone else to tell you to do it another way because personal preference.
To many clashing genres in one social circle ends with some horrible producer habits lol
I honestly got lucky enough to become close to a lot of the more well known users when I was active in the AT discord server but I never actually stayed friends with anyone in there
Every friendship was made more or less off site and even now audiotool is never mentioned and actually used as an inside joke when talking about anything.
This entire website has some really awesome people but damn the amount of negativity it spawns when being used as a conversation piece LOL
anyways im ranting a bit no real clue on where to go with this kinda lost my train of thought as I started rambling
just in general the social aspects of audiotool have really started to die down and only really pick up when a school year starts.
Which then causes more inside issues ie the dating problems and not so good actors taking advantage of tracks with remix on or download enabled.
I think audiotool as a community will never hit that peak where the servers died due to how many people were talking ever again.
combine all this with the original inspirations of pretty much everyone on here slowly leaving audiotool and suddenly you have a mixed pot of low interest and none to begin with
of course the users who've stayed since day one are still active but how long will that last?
this,
I agree with both sentiments. i'm not sure when AT's heyday began, and ended - but it wasn't long ago I was struggling myself as a new user. I learned a lot of what I know from other known, and respected users who've already been on the site for numerous years. to me, there's no experience quite like audiotool - there's a learning curve, and worthwhile music on this website. the passing of the flame, so to speak - I felt that. some of my favorite artists - people i've looked up to - aren't here anymore. I believe people do want to hear new things - the old community, and the new will become one. the genres are mixing, new sounds are being discovered. we're making music from our bedrooms, our studios, our closets - for new users; DONT create for others, create for yourself. we should be making what we want to hear.
what's interesting is I've felt this sentiment for a while now.
When I started taking production more seriously in 2019, the site was buzzing with excitement, but as the years passed, I felt a sinking feeling that many of my friends and fans had left the site for different DAWs. and in part- I feel personally responsible for this change.
It wasn't until I began to chart that the charts started to mean nothing. and watching my friends and peers make incredible art, only for a half-baked trap beat of mine to overtake it bc it had vocals over it. and to some, it may be a coincidence, but I have a guttural feeling that ever since I returned to audiotool I've somehow played a part in breaking this community further down the middle.
and I think that's why I haven't moved to another DAW yet.
There has always been a divide between new AT users and the older heads but now it feels as if they are on 2 entirely separate planes of existence.
I want to mend this gap somehow, and participating in competitions and collaborations may be a step in the right direction, but I'm not entirely sure it's a solution.
my biggest fear is when this new AT update drops, no one will be left to enjoy it. and that genuinely breaks my heart.
I will never leave this site, and I hope that is enough to convince people to stay with me.
rest assured I dont think you have as much of a part in the divide as you think. in fact id say producers like you help restore faith in the audiotool hiphop community, which is often kind of a toxic corner of the site
I don't think any one individual person, or group of people, or entire genre community is at fault as much as just the circumstances of audiotool itself. the samplepocalypse hurt FAR worse in its aftermath than anyone could anticipate. 2020/2021 quarantine brought lots of people back, but as the world started running again a large chunk of people ran with it and left a huge crater. a lot of the artists that remained were just getting their foot in the door. I didnt even really develop my style until 2020 and that took 4 years. i just think we have to wait for more and more artists to hone their skills and rise to the standard we want out of this site
HOWEVER: where you, me, and other bigger artists come in is helping these ppl out so that we can cultivate that standard. I've already seen you giving detailed, constructive feedback on a lot of ppl's tracks and that's exactly what the site needs. I've been noticing a lack of that compared to a few years ago; seems like lots of people think they got everything figured out, bc they get favs or charts or whatever, and they stagnate or get lazy bc nothing is pushing them. I think everyone, new or experienced, should be more way more open and way more prone to giving/receiving constructive criticism on here
branching off of that I think we should be (respectfully) calling ppl out way more for laziness and blatant misuse of the site. copyrighted acapellas and entire drafts uploaded from other DAWs have been a well-documented issue for years, yet that shit still charts really frequently. ik you of all people don't need to hear that from me but i'd encourage you to get your following on the same page if you haven't been already, it'd be a great way to use your platform!!
I'm feeling more and more distant from the community. I guess it's just partially me losing relevance, since I barely make music here and me resenting that loss.
The second factor is simply just change. My interests change, my interactions change, my friends change. The people who wrote something here have largely been on AT for some time, so we just might be noticing our interests changing. We're not just teenagers anymore, trying to get away from school, and do our little thing. You have less time, you get a bit behind, or you just want to stay in your lanes.
As someone mentioned here, a lot of new producers will just move towards making trap and similar genres, for which the older generation is not the audience.
Next, the charts have been speaking that story for a while, but it seems only the elite clique ever makes it to those charts. It's always high profiles and a select few people and, as petty as it sounds, I just get envious of that. I can see how people, well... give up. The less intermediate people are on here, the bigger the skill gap and it gets difficult for you to find motivation.
Perhaps it has something to do with the challenges on here too. I knew exactly who was going to win. Some folks likely felt that it wouldn't be worth joining anything. AT has become competitive in that sense, rather than collaborative.
Now the personal part: Negativity breeds negativity. It may only be my experience, but what this site has become for me is just twitter. It's much easier to write some dumb comments on your wall down, instead of making a banger. I feel like I've pushed people away through that. I've isolated myself that way. I guess I might have been a bad example for people (if I am or was as relevant as I think). Does that have anything to do with the site? IDK. Maybe it does. I just think I may not be alone in feeling that.
I feel like there are probably plenty of intermediate artists here who fill out the gap, but not enough people across all skill levels of the community communicate with eachother, at least not in productive ways
when I was like 13 I used to hop in public rabb.it sessions with laevent and synthonix and all these artists, and not only would i learn from them but we would all mingle!! the audiotool discord tries to provide the same experience, but since it's fan-ran there's only so much the staff can do to keep it alive. and as a former mod i'll admit ego and poor management really screwed that place over at times, but it's a hobby gig so what can ya rlly do
about the clique thing: i think ever since the crazy spike in toxicity following the samplepocalypse, a lot of the older users just kinda keep to themselves or stay in their cliques now. and to a certain point I don't blame them because a lot of the newer users are kids, and that's fucking annoying. but it also makes the older users, who could be great mentors, really hard to approach because they either ignore or belittle the new guys trying to figure things out. and don't get me wrong i'm guilty of that too; sometimes i log on wanting to socialize and i'm just met with spam links and people with 1 day old accounts asking to collab and it completely demotivates me to practice what i preach
BUT. the whole msg of this board post is to resist that and seek out the good parts of the community and try to cultivate them the best you can, from whatever skill level you're at. you can chart at like 25 favs rn because the community is so apathetic that even the standards for music are embarrassingly low. people who give a shit need to use their passion positively instead of angrily pointing out problems all the time. pass your knowledge, give/receive criticism, chat with people!!! report shit that breaks TOS but that's not all the site is
Petition to start forcing everyone to make experimental music
It's the fastest way to learn devices and want to seek help
😭😭😭
This is a joke obviously
I can only understand the changes from my part. Can't really reason with anything general. Just saying this, since I can feel this phenomenon, but I can't pinpoint what it is. For me it's mostly personal changes and tbh just me being grumpy with everything. In general, I believe it's just a lot of things that have changed on AT lately. We might just not be entirely used to it and that may come with time. One thing that has been mentioned is learning. I'm not really doing that here anymore, but that's more a decision rather than saying I've run out of things to learn. Perhaps we could and should look a bit into the processes through which someone has achieved some sound. Another thing I don't do anymore is give constructive criticism. That's the thing that made my account grow and got me where I am in terms of interactions. Imma blame it on having little time again, but that could also just be something to do to bring this place together on a small scale.
alternative title: IS IT OVER??? OR ARE WE BACK?!?!?!
Hey Yito - I couldn't help but notice you blaming yourself for not having time, or running out of ideas, and having this lack of creativity - I know what you're feeling man. But I think it's all bullshit. I'm struggling rn with that, but there's always more to learn. And what I realize more and more, as I continue making music on this site, is that I haven't found my sound yet. It's not over, or too late. Continue experimenting, and I'm sure you'll learn something new, or discover a sound you've never produced, or try a new genre. Just don't limit yourself, don't quit because you haven't made it yet - and I don't mean charts or trending. That sound in your head, the song you want to make but just can't, not yet - you guys know what I mean. That's why I'm still here. I haven't made it yet, but I feel close. I love audiotool. So keep it up brah - make time.
sounds like a click-bait 2018 end of the year type video made by a fortnite youtuber, and the thumbnail is them sitting on a chair looking down with upper text saying "my last video"
Thanks, Ponyo, but it's more so a time management issue. That's what bothers me most. I'd really like to hop on the stu. I don't even care too much about quality, only quality time, which I can honestly already get if I hop in and make a meme track that sounds like donkey. Learning is as much of an unconscious process as it is conscious. I'm learning, still, I just don't open remixes a lot, which is the main way of discovering techniques. I find it good that I'm in my own lane in the way I produce, but it comes with disadvantages as everything does and I just think it would probably help me to see other techniques. I don't really want to fill this place up with MY problems anymore, so I'd be grateful if we stopped here. Just wanted to clarify some stuff. Also, I don't want to leave the site completely, but I want to at least try something else. See where that leads me.
We're so joever/it's so back.
i dont think the community itself is shallow really, because so many artists on audiotool are massively multigenre and open-minded towards/even inspired by experimental or noise music etc. and some of them have a sizable following! but i do think the site itself just doesn't do enough to advertise smaller weirder artists. rn it's mostly based off numbers, and catchier music is always gonna dominate more abstract music on the charts. so it's difficult knowing where to look when trying to find interesting underground artists. a while ago i had the idea that an audiotool editorial might help with this, sorta like bandcamp daily
at the same time tho, the culture of audiotool is largely centered around the social media aspect. being active in the community is important to your growth creatively and in terms of audience. but i think many people approach it wrong. when given the advice to "be more active" they do everything they can to advertise their own material. but the most valuable engagement comes from interacting with other artists to learn, to teach, to collaborate, and even just to befriend
now i say all that but i get what you mean about it being hard to mingle without feeling discouraged or left out. the community is super cliquey. the audiotool server helps bring together a larger crowd but even then it struggles with activity and it's mostly ran by a clique itself. i dont really have a solution to that other than the lazy answer of not letting it bother you. cause i mean a normal person isnt gonna shoo someone away for simply being outside their pre-established friendgroup. we're all artists here and we can all gain something from interacting, regardless of how well we know eachother
the tried and true methods for starting creative bonds are to give constructive criticsm wherever you can, praise and share the good shit, ask questions about ppl's music (concepts, techniques, or inspirations), collaborate, remix, etc
You can take a look at my tracks in remix anytime :)
pls all of you join my chat
man i understand this..... i personally am not gonna leave audiotool ever... it will be my main daw 4ever.. i am still maturing my sound, and so are all of you, but when will we not be? every second we breathe we experience something new, and our views are always changing, and with such a passionate and personal factor like art, more specifically music, we are inclined, whether we like it or not, to change. while i have only been on at for a year, i have been working with daws for almost 4-5 years now. on here i definitely notice the shift just from when i got on here, and apparently this has been happening for some time from what it seems. shit sux but, what can you really do? very glass half empty but u just gotta keep pushin
This is just a Cope spiral
i feel like... hmmmm...... yeah. the whole trap scene is really big.... a lot of new cats (mainly kids who watched a couple "how to make a fire trap beat on your chromebook" vids and decided they could do it) LEGIT get traction for either, for a lack of better words, absolute garbage, or something that really isn't bad, but isn't bringing anything new to the table. there's no sustenance. honestly, with me, a lot of people on here say that my style is like nothing else that's been seen on the site, which i appreciate, but i much don't believe myself. i just kinda do me... thats why my genres always change all the time. sometimes i feel angry. sometimes i feel sad. sometimes i want to express a desire of some sort (a better life, romance, you name it), sometimes im happy, or sometimes, i just gotta good idea in the head bank.
i feel thats where the problem lies however. a lot of these people who are on the front of audiotool with a couple "pierre" "808" "fire" "trap" tags get a whole bunch of praise for literally nothing. and it ties back to what you said, that really, there's a entire new generation almost of audiotool (that unfortunately i had to walk into instead of watch happen, not sure which is worse,) that are just into making soulless beats for attention, some sort of validation, or fame. its really sad. when i found audiotool, i really didn't expect anyone to find me. even now, i still don't plan to try to become popular. even the tags i use, i just use them to 'establish' my brand, per se, and to show the genres influencin said track. i really am passionate about all forms of art, visual and musical specifically, and as such, i wanted to document my passion, and if a couple people wanted to come on the journey, they could (and they are right now :D)
in my conclusion, i really think that it's not the site. there is nothing wrong with audiotool. it is simply the wave of people who aren't truly passionate for what this entire site (n medium of art as a whole) has 2 stand for, n i think THAT'S killing at........
and what you said with running outta ideas..... that really fckin sucks. i wouldn't say that it has to do with age, its more this subconscious sorrow seeing the site change, again, subconsciously making you change as well, and losing interest. i feel like that's also why i dont wanna get 'relevant', or more that im scared to, because of that reason. losing a foundation (that you grow to love and nourish) only to watch it wilt away in the hands of death himself (the new gen of producers, who aren't just on at, but just the time period we're in as a whole) is sad... but at the same time, i dont think i can feel the same "envy", as i dont care whether or not i am "relevant" in the first place. this is NOT downplaying anything you're saying of course, i completely understand where you're coming from, and the shit really sucks, im just giving my stupid opinion...
your comment is yeah
are you gonna develop a personality or are you gonna stay here to be a huge fucking downer all the time
Audiotool fans are on more copium than halo fans lmao. There are no more “golden days”. Maybe the reason there aren’t any role models anymore is because the current ones (you and your cancer circlejerk friend group) are ego driven assholes
Tee-hee
You really aren't any better nor are you helping lol
Literally why I stopped interacting with "the boys"
That entire friend group is overly cocky pretentious and obsessed with shitting on anyone who has a different opinion other than their own lmao
Idk if they have changed in the last two years but I know from the past that you haven't done much of changing lmao
Ngl your ranting/shit posting about audiotool has hit an all time low
You're like a discount vizil when it comes to that 😂
This is a genuine concern
Are you like obsessed with audiotool?
Like
Was it the fact that you lost traction as an artist?
Is that why you take it out on the community?
@cripplingcompression yk im genuinely glad you said that because now i have some actual productive info to take into consideration instead of the usual lame attempts to stir the pot and entertain yourself. but like, are we ego-driven assholes universally... or do you think its simply in response to your and others' toxicity that directly damages the community? ik you cant fight fire with fire but y'all piss me off. sorry for caring about this place man, obviously whatever you're doing is way better
And I took that personally.
true you have to admit this is vizil levels of ranting. better not make a 1 hr rant track or else i'll have to remix it as well ;)
@razordracula your opinion isn't stupid. It's Very valid one. And I guess it may suck a bit that I've run out of the passion and patience to create meaningful things, but it's not my priority rn anyway. Only one I have currently is surviving lol.
yeah... guess it just comes down to whether or not you want to continue or not.
i was on a walk the other day, and someone was approaching me on the sidewalk, and i crossed the street to get around them. later that day, another person approaching me did the same to get around me. i realized this has been normal for 4 years since covid. i think quarantine has made everyone so avoidant of eachother in physical space to the point that it's subconsciously leaking onto the internet and people care less to interact with the greater community. a lot of online communities have seen a change and dead internet theory is slipping into the mainstream LMAO. maybe it's not just an audiotool thing but a greater cultural thing
pretty accurate